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tv   Book TV  CSPAN  April 14, 2013 4:00pm-5:00pm EDT

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of all these different things that we could be doing. oh, my gosh, my twitter feet and my sms and my facebook updates and my this and my that, this sense of constantly being pinged by all these different things. the irony in it is when we're trying to keep up with all of these digital manifestations of the moment, we actually lose track of the moment that we're in. you know? not to get too zen buddhist on you, but we're actually here now, you know, and we're so busy trying to keep up with these devices and these things and all these pings when in reality those pippings are just trying to -- those pings are just trying to keep up with us. so "present shock" at its simplest is this futile effort to try to keep up with time, and we lose track of timing. ..
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there are various ways in which we are present shock rather than the president. as you believe there has been a shift from a society that leaves howard, and mechanical industrial age society that is goal untreated, that even the money we use has a clock clock in at. you have to pay back over time. businesses are racing to get bigger and bigger because they have to pay back their data structures.
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they should be, there could be a liberation from all of that as we move into the ditch of reality. is this all the time in the world as to the digital life that we could embrace every research for a train to catch up with the view i called them syndromes through which we exercise that. the first in a simple icon narrative collapse. the idea they are is any present society it's hard to tell a story, to live by this story. stories is what we been using since aristotlestein mart before to share our values and make her points. it goes back as far as the bible and comes back to the commercial where the girl is going to go do a prom but she gets a good and it gets worse.
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finally she finds the occupied and puts it on as she is relieved to go to the prom and we could be relieved and then finally relax. except now with digital devices, remote controls coming dvr is coming vcrs, pause button for changing the channels, we don't have to sit through that anymore. so what do we do? rico wade. with the this story before it's even reached the peak. so this whole notion of striving towards a goal, whether it's cap of a summer communism company do these great danes so you get good in the afterlife. the ends justify the means to do some goal no longer make sense, not what we work for a common knee and may crash our pension before we get it. that when we vote for obama and
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we were the thing we were waiting for. back to something as usual. so without stories, we don't have a sense of anything. but there are some wins a present as alternatives to narrative collapse. one of them we were just talking about is the occupied because they would state their demand. what is it that she was? we are doing it right now. we're not demanding anything from you. were not do this first of the mouse. it's sort of an internet style political movement and that it is not party some great narrative about winning a war are beating the bad guys.
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instead it is the tainting a normative behavior right now but not just exemplifies, but actualizes this thing were talking about. it's a difference between a society for whom books and stories is the predominant entertainment medium and one for videogames is. video games find their way towards a more present his style of engagement. you're not watching some kerry gear. you write a character making choices in real times. you are living it in the present. and in the game, if you read the pdf digital era of game is you are not playing the game in order to win and ended. you are playing to keep the plan i've.
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you keep coming up with new ways to keep the game going. it's a sustainable strategy rather than 1184 conclusion. it's no longer climaxed through the fence sleep, the curve of narrative. instead, it is how long can we keep this going? which is a much better question to ask in a world delivered right out rather than the colonial estate come expansionist world. narrative collapse is one of them. the second one comes to this videogame and polls. we are constantly making choices all the time. what additional world tells us, particularly the digital relatives you can make choices. you can choose this and not bought the same time. for me, the challenge of living
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digitally is not information over the. you can't overload. i'm just not going to look. the real trick is digital technology is good at making copies of things, but it's hard to make copies of people. meanwhile there's five or 10 different manifestation, different senses operating simultaneously. issue facebook account happening right now. mark burkitt's advertising with your face. there's your sms ratepayer. all these instances behaving simultaneously. i was trying to login after unsuccessfully tried from here and there and google came back
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inside sorry, we can't let you in. you appear to be document too many places at once. when google no longer believes that i'm a human being, that's how i know i'm in trouble. there is a digital sense in digital time that every moment is like every other moment. that time is somehow generic. as human beings, they been in real time and space committee understand that we don't live like that. every moment is not like every other moment. the more about higher rhythms and biological clocks, the more we find out how many timepieces there are in s. jet lag is to be seen as jewish
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folklore. they didn't leave until his major league baseball managers and pitchers traveling west to east did worse than pictures east to west. once they believed in terms of negotiation, they said maybe you can't just schedule yourself to a thousand things. it turns dirty shriek of the lunar cycle tends to dominate brain chemistry. go through week of dopamine and norepinephrine. so if you know everybody is in dopamine week, that's party week. they're open to new ideas. serotonin will work really hard and norepinephrine of the lake for obama in a fight or flight organizational structural
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thinking. but if you understand that that we are biological creatures, we have been for one hundreds of thousands of years, we can go wow, i can program devices to conform to me, rather than stretch me across these devices. the third syndrome i called over winding and i got the idea when i was reading stuart brand's call for us to think of time in 10,000 year time spans rather than every year, every day. as trying to think of my life in 10,000 year time spans and i was it. it is kind of a short forever. it's hard to estimate of 10,000 years. where am i going to throw it out tonight tomorrow start again
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about the landfill? what if i done? is going on. it's this sort of misapplication of one timescale onto another. over winding what people are no longer patient enough to invest now, they go it's okay. you can make your money on the trade. you're not make money by investing. they bought the stock that day at 9:00 in the morning and 9:15 they said make any money yet and that that the buying of the stuff would make money. so now we have to riveters, which are basically saying the stock over time. trying to burrow in the moment so you make money on the rate of
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change rather than if it changes at all. if you don't believe me that is become the thing chronos meant to derivatives exchange by the new york stock exchange. the market got bigger than the markets is so, which was the economy we are supposedly living in on all this is based. it's this race of how many algorithms can use it on the head of a pin? goldman sachs exit the trade and make citrate taste on your trade before it goes through. you are treating and may treat in your future. on a human level, like housewives is what gave me the idea for the book.
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and they have these frozen faces stuck in this horrible little smile and they basically have the elves and get in fights. they have communication misunderstandings. i think what is going on here? carol this woman who lack their faces at 29 years of age. they are trying to freeze time. but what do they do? the result is a nicer for someone else in real time that can't be present in the moment. they cannot register the situation. my daughter is being tested and the other goes i'm so sorry to hear that. and then they cutaways that i don't if she's not fat all. what she meant it, but she couldn't express it because she's no longer available to the real moment because she locked herself into southern moment because she couldn't be what she actually was.
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the fourth one is called prior to knowing a ended is what happens and there's no longer time between the thing you do and the feedback you get. feedback is how we judged everything in our business, farming. wait two months and see how occurred. i'm going to put bases closer together next time. it grew a little bit better. there were going to make red sweatshirts, put them in the market and not the end of the quarter the researchers did well. we'll do more. your feedback loop is so fast you can't parse causes and effects anymore. the person seemed to treat before he came out what they come us who as she change your marketing campaign. it's all suddenly in the same
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moment. what it's all the same morning commute no longer have time to understand things and you no longer have stories, so you try to understand things in this instantaneous picture. when you understand things as a snapshot, the only way it makes sense is drawing connections. this must be connected to that and the sinister sounding like one of the conspiracy theorists because you're drunk connections between things that are connected. the real way to make sense of feedback is currently called fractals. these beautiful drawings, visual representations, but the way to understand them is not to direct comparison. it is to do pattern recognition. pattern recognition means it's kind of like that.
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it's like that. do this come as a people do that. people are different, but maybe we do something similar. in order to make sense, you have to get the subject of the picture and start looking at the landscape. it is the scale of seeing what's going on, rather than focusing on each piece because you don't have time to parse cause-and-effect. the blast sent them in the book is called apocalypse go and it's kind of the idea that it's easier to imagine a zombie apocalypse than it is to imagine next week. when you live in a reality that is just to maintain, it can become unbearable and we take our good old 20th century for century paradigms and overlay
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them on a reality that doesn't fit that. it's what a lot of my peers do now when they see digital technology you. they say except for the fact technology is soon going to surpass last. we have the singularity and information will evolve. but if they don't? the smartest digital people say it's also going to come for the story we've been using all this time before. they take their biblical narrative and throw it on the digital. it could break us free from these industrial age time is money, make everything faster paradigm. that's why life pacemakers and slackers and weirdos are part of of the original movement. i'm going to get to work whenever i want to make underpants people directly.
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i'm not going to have to work for the man. they're going to deal as a return to a peer-to-peer marketplace. but this took the digital revolution and applied it to industrial age values. don't worry. instead of something new, we will teach you how to make it be the accelerant, another steroidal injection in the failing economy. and it's something with its own evolutionary past. we are serving information towards consciousness and once he reaches back, we can just go away. but aside as they see it, that
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has been medium in the message reversed. information is a byproduct of humanity. it is our content. but we are the thing. even if for now, i will fight for us because i am one of the humans. so what present shock ultimately is a call to reclaim humanity in the face of seemingly alienated and depersonalizing digital technology into relays the genuine opportunity is not to be programmed into submission by technologies, but to seize the day nuc stick knowledge is underway that's confident with us, to who we are rather than conform to it. >> what do you want to understand a little better?
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combining which you opened it in your conclusion now, where present shock comes from. i'm wondering is this a technologically determined phenomenon are there other forces at work it's making this moment come to fruition? and you mentioned 9/11 was the breaking continuity. it makes me wonder, is this a western experience? i would even say, is someone in rural ohio experiencing present shock? how do you see this phenomenon fading into our global identity? >> that's a good one.
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i am not a techno- determinist in that sense. i wouldn't say digital have been umberger pitman responds. digital technology emerged coincidence with our readiness for something beyond the industrial age. said the industrial age had uttered itself in a number of ways. time is money was great for colonial players to expand around the growth. the growth imperative is part of what allowed western europe to take over a lot of the world. but we actually reached the limit of that or there's nowhere else to take over in the places we still take over virtually through world bank loans, those countries got wise to that. they'll equate a minute, this might not actually be a good
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thing and they started to push back. so we've kind of reached this limit at the same time i magically for whatever reason plucker computers into phone lines and got the internet. but the internet took off because of a cultural rowdiness for it. you can call this reader response theory. we were ready for a peer-to-peer culture, just as jet travel was ready for something other then spoke and hub flights. human beings were ready for some game than outsourcing everything. it wasn't working anymore here at cell had digital technology, different time, i don't know if it would've embraced it the same way. once they came, and if it taken over and doing a whole lot more
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than we might expect it. part of that is digital tech knowledge is a more appropriate way of being is, but part of that is the dining top-down culture and did a really taking it as a way of extending itself inappropriately into the next era. but as for whether everybody's ms are just some us, i would argue this kind of present shop that affect high-tech urban dwellers more than other people do but if you work for a corporation in your shifts are determined by machine, if you are not clicks and you're now watching media created sybase
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data engines, like that show house of cards. they say people who like -- people who like kevin spacey also like david fincher and political entry. it makes people compelled to watch it. it's weird and empty, like it's made by a machine rather than people. but is this perfect game. so if you're timeshifting of television viewing, you can't go to work the next day and say dgc jay leno last night? it's like i did, but i saw episode for them to sign nine, so you've got to watch it on your own. you have autonomy over what you're watching it when you watch it, but uses this other thing.
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as far as other parts of the world, yes and no. in some sense, they are less in present shock. indigenous cultures who never quite had to contend with the industrial age, their values and systems and mapping that is retrieved. every time you get a new renaissance, you retrieve the values repressed the last time. so in the last renaissance press feminism, indigenous people. we repressed here to peer coulter, value creation and exchange. now we see those things come back. receive her name in, occupied, the archaic revival and those are weird, but i would argue positive steps.
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in some sense, the indigenous culture left out of present shock end up participating again. >> something that's interesting about your work in general throughout all the books you've written is your subject matter of his changes, but the message tends to be a program by some interested powder that we have to identify and see. he views program at planning and the revelation that there was a real estate money and surest and where the parts are placed and once you read the world is a program, you can claim agency and subvert and hackett. a departure in the spoke as it
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seems like everyone is screwed at present shock. there's asher v. across the board. their student debt and so on and so forth. so is there a program in present shock? and if not, does anyone capitalizing on this phenomenon? >> what you refer to this kind of my initial hit before any kind of meditative psychedelic eye-opening experience. i was learning how to program for the first time in a realized i could make what was on the tv set, that when you see the program in computer language or a file you are can't come you have to choose whether you save
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it is a read only program or a read write file. they really stepped that moment, television is read only. that's only because they've made it read-only. i started looking on the world and i said this isn't just city. somebody made the city. they chose to make the city this way. i started looking at the world no longer is a set of circuits answers, the choices people made sometimes with specific agendas. they made new york city like this to maximize motion because this was supposed to be about a money city. u.s.a. city about beauty,
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introspection. it is the city to get this done. as i let it back, i started to look at every sysadmin money and save the money was in rented and replaced all these other money because there is a peer-to-peer economy aristocracy did maintain control, so they said if he goes on to transact, borrow money at interest. it is a clever idea and it worked. but now we wake up and think this stuff is money. you never say this is something else. what is this stuff? is what we use now is money. we live for certain anopheles have maintained that this is
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money. if something is the only program you have come you take at face lu. every computer at the windows operating system comment there would be no such thing. it's just a computer. until you have choice come you don't even know it's there. so that was the driving force behind my stuff. elected judaism that way, this revolution. were going to keep renewing it and i was arguing how judaism had got locked down because of the persecution and we lost the open source quality. i don't see present shock as more negative in that sense. i see an invitation to look at a deeper program, which is our
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biological programs, emotional, social. not the program created by someone else, but the one that comes from us. we are actually creatures. how'd we make ourselves more available so when we do this programming, we can do programming constant with who we are. how can we be with other people, which is such a challenge these days. we spending so much time on computers, looking outward for keys. 94% of human communication is nonverbal. whether your pupils dilate her contract. all that stuff we respond to them people agree with you. so what i'm trying to do is get
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people clues and hints on how to reconnect to these more fundamental breakdowns. when there's a break in continuity if we're liberated from the punch clock, from the industrial age clock into this highly fluid form of time with an opportunity for us to reengage some of these more primal on the biological, emotional and socially halt the relationships to the passage of time. >> former question and then open up to the audience. just to conclude, all these people together in this room and was here promoting a book, which is incredibly old-fashioned and
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you're using to get this message across. i guess you can extrapolate upon this, but why is this a book unwise that the message you're getting ready right now? the night the hubris of writing a book is on the one hand claiming i am allowed to take a year to contemplate a single name. it is saying that there may be ideas that can't be any bullet lists. and it's also inviting people, not demanding, but inviting people to surrender economy over seven or eight hours of their lives or to surrender it to say you're going to be with me for seven or eight hours so i can
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engage if you want a level that i can't in a cnn column, that i can't and article. ideally, it is the way of saying were allowed to do this. we don't have to shove it into that one plane ride. it's like wait a minute, who says that? i realize that a book is anachronistic in a digital age. just because we embrace and invented this doesn't mean all these times don't coexist with that. yes, we move into a culture where videogame logic and choices in real time is the predominant form of entertainment and immersion, but it doesn't mean the others go away. we can still go to the up to,
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even if iran is doing extreme sports. there's still a place for these experiences. that's for certain ideas are home, where i'm at home. so that is there. i am doing it with the full knowledge that the way i sell a book these days is not by saying you need this. if you don't understand digital timing, you won't market to people. what is that? read this or you're in trouble. you need this so. you don't need this. but you're allowed this. you are a human and living in
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the 21st century. you are allowed to have time. ironically, the more tiny cake, the more time you have. the more you try to catch up the last time you have. the faster you take a mouse, the more the comment. the slower, the more you'll see people solve those problems without you. and they really do. so i guess it is that books are such a wonderful discipline, both as an author and reader tuesday now, i recognize but and if i create for excuses to say no and reading a book, then i've done my job. >> thank you, doug. >> thank you. [applause] >> any questions?
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>> please wait for the microphone to get you. shall be in charge of finding the people. >> hayek, thank you so much. i was wondering if any aspect of your cessna can you connect it to the end of limit rate. do you see any correlations? >> absolutely. first of all, this sounds awful, but since when is unemployment a bad thing? seriously, we've got to create jobs. do you want jobs? now, you want stuff. you want the stuff you get for having a job. people didn't just have jobs. people may stuff and sold it. we had to go work for a company and instead of being paid to make it the income you paid for
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the tiny print and for the corporation. that's a dangerous servitude. we don't need jobs because we have enough stuff. there's more than enough houses. they are burning down houses and destroyed them to keep prices high. we are destroying food every month. the only reason we need people to have jobs is to justify taking out the stuff you have to them. and we end up sticking in storage and. we have more stuff than we need. we create new excuses and black friday to get them to consume
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more. are we tearing down my wisdom building my house this? the industrial age requirement of the economy to grow. so i don't know in our lifetime, they think will get to the place we realize we can have robots telling the story of advocate just eat it and that's not a bad date. when we work, we work to make things better. we healed the sick, not just trying to import more plastic from china to keep this economic machine going. it is a program without it just spoke on. >> do you think that the recent digital platforms like the narrative you were saying earlier, based on the fact
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there's a lack of context awareness, meaning if it knew more where were at any given time and how we were feeling, which it seems to be going that way but that would remedy the problem? >> and might remedy or it might create a new one. the addition of narrative in digital technology is what they call predictive modeling. so they use big data analysis to figure out johnny's 12, but we can talk from a statistic or profile. mary's 36 and we can tell from the way peschel probably do with infertility issues. so they can sanyo things to manifest the person you're most likely to be. that is life creation. that is turning people into
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programs, rather than letting people pick and protect the ball thinks they are. these are contacts, but that is much more like beavis and butthead are the symptoms. it's more of a meta-sensibility huc frames than you do in a linear sense. the way we make sense is by recognizing when you watch the simpsons. is it that homer saved the nuclear power plants? now, you recognize the other form of media. when you make the connection, you feel more oriented. what we move towards is a moment to moment since orientation in grounding from screens within screens, relationships for
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things to other things, from getting the joke more than getting to the end. [inaudible conversations] >> how do you think president schoch is affecting the way wars are fought today? >> that's interesting. from 1 cents, it's more of a chronic situation became involved in. you never really won a war. he just won the battle and kill people. but there is a sense of war as an ongoing state. i talk a lot about in the book is strong citing. it is your frantic approach to
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war because here you are. you are in a room outside las vegas, flying a plane in afghanistan killing people far away. in you getting your car, go home and have dinner with your wife and kid. it turns out her own pilot experience higher levels of poster mattox is disorder than the ones in the battlefield. i would argue it's because of this new way of fighting more, where you're trying to manifest throughout one's ultimately incompatible. goddess was going to start to happen now. there is this part of a us.
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it's not constant with our values, with what we believe in them we have to reconcile those two things. the more we alienate, the more it does seem distant and does get pretty weird. >> unit for the mass media audience. >> i think it is kind of misleading -- [inaudible] >> i think there's a difference between living and machine world and a more digital world. reliving a physical universe, that we live in one now dominated by a digital bias as
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opposed to a bias. the difference is mechanical age technology does the thing it does. a shovel dates, a car drives. adding a mac >> i think the difference -- the kind of things they look at as digitally technologies and you can argue they're all the same. when i look at computers, robotics, genomics, nanotechnology, things you set in motion and have a life of their own. they try to survive, replicate, change things. they keep coming without you, were a shovel soothsayer.
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you can argue it's all part of the same continuum. i [inaudible] >> you can, that the kinds of cold chair that goes around the invention of text ends up for whatever reason he and a friend in the culture that builds around the printing press, which for whatever reason is different than the culture that built around computer and digital to elegy. it could be completely in based on nothing but our perception of how devices work. but they do have different media environments. as the light zero, right? the late vote creates an
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environment. there's no content in a lightbulb until you make it have word aurea kerner chrome side. a lightbulb itself creates an environment. air conditioning creates an environment. fire creates an environment. television, telegraph and digital technology creates an environment, too. it's not that didn't make this happen, but as our culture changes, our values change and the tools we developed change the way we see things. >> you are saying the difference between the culture around print and the internet are inherent to an environment in the digital culture and how much of it is the new media and for the past
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20 years we even see it become less like that. >> is interesting. i've always felt we are in danger of folding the environment into the industrial age. that's the main thing i've been kicking and screaming about since nine to 98 via the thing had got mad about his service a reality. here we've got the technology. we can be here, being makers and make the world than i thought everyone talk about this being his company. it's going to change your business, do this, the long boat mishap needs of industrial capitalism can grow forever and ever. on the same day jerry garcia died, netscape went public and i
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thought i wonder if the potential that i am seeing for a new environment is subsumed by the industrial age. it may very well be, but i believe if it is, most of us are going to die. i really believe that we've reached the limit of that way of doing things and trying to create the most appetizing ways of describing what it might be like to live in a world where we have a sustainable roach to live together, where we stop looking at life as individuals are a nation and this thing were going to win rather than the same we will keep doing. >> are you taking the media revolution and using that said
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we could change these other things, like nation had been all this other stuff as opposed to letting it go back? >> i don't know if it will go back. i've got to be in the boardrooms. when i look at the way corporations exist now, they are dying. corporations live to help them collect money. they cannot make money anymore. corporate profitability is going down steadily. they don't know how to keep doing it. so icl they are at the crossroads, too. lots of signs of hope. i also think because it is again
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around-the-clock, revolution. i think of it more as a renaissance, where they are reborn in a context. the stuff that got repressed when we became centralized, charter corporations got repressed at that time by just picking out. these things take hundreds of years to have been great as in years stepping. i'm trying to remain hopeful that infinitesimal the signs seem. >> hi, do you think digital technologies are helping or hurting societal goals? >> i think they can help or hurt.
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wendy is digital type elegy to sell more cell phones to people and last time and stick it to case, it is hurting. when we is digital technology and open source planning to give developing nations blueprints on how to build agricultural machinery bravery they are are, it's helping. when we use it to exacerbate the monopolies of corporate capitalism, it is hurting. when we allow for peer-to-peer marketplaces to emerge in new economic models, it helps. i hate to call it a double-edged sword, but it seems to be. it's very powerful stuff, which as i've been advocating people to learn how to use it. it digitally literate population is that fitness, through. if we don't know how to program ourselves, we will please be
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aware of the digital environments we are inhabiting. because look at something like facebook and say this is not fun for me. this is making me feel vulnerable and yucky and assign the thing stopping out to people of follow me. it's not really progress on the grand scheme of things. to the extent we feel we are allowed to make choices about what technologies enhance our lives and wiped out are doing good things with pack rather than bad. >> i think it's come up a couple time, one of the obvious reaction to digital stuff everywhere is the narrative, which now everyone wants to tap
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into. he said something interesting about the values that got repressed. he touched on indigenous cultures. what are some values you might see combat to life? >> the beauty of a renaissance is everything old is new again. you can't go back. i'm a progressive. neither can you lean forward. so does the opposite of fox traditional values. we are actually right here and now. right here now means we can be available to things unavailable to us before. and it's more primitive form, you could remain man and it gets like that because that is where we associate the site duties.
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the last memory is the medieval perspire. ideally what we do is bring it back in a new context. saturday currency rate tear pieces of foil, you end up with the peer-to-peer currency in your iphone and authentication and go somewhere else with it. so in terms of indigenous culture, i do think they have access to certain things that we all may find again liked for me to say which is figuring out there is a lunar cycle. every woman in the world knows there's a motorcycle. but i like i got it. in terms of western scientists, to go every week of the lunar
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cycle is a different dominant mood and your. you got any schaumann and it would be like to it's called the man. that's why we do this. if you go back to the ancient jewish calendar, they had a true global calendar respect the needs for them, but we lost that. so some of that fills old and we can revise nature wisdom again. if you start saying they induced that there was a shaping time. you think there's a shape to time and maybe they knew it we can combine that and it was sort of like terence mckenna who got part of it and now we are trying to actually do it.
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>> all signed books and stuff and we can talk. >> how does that logic speak to places like india, where the digital superimpose their environments? >> i don't really, really know. it ended up thinking more about china because they are more than is in india. i look at moments, but as the coca-cola truly. i look at the chinese olympics and 10,000 people doing tai chi and i'm like, are they trying to demonstrate an older clock and things they are involved in. i sometimes worry for cultures that adopt a digital age kind of
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mentality without passing through the same kinds of things. in other words, these are such powerful tools. i work at a place called code academy. in america people, people do it generally because they want to create a product. they went to lunch and i found out. people in india want a degree so they can get a job. when you realize people are poor and now they can get a job and make some progress, it's a great and beautiful thing. but then i else so that they know what they're getting themselves into? bear the work farms for american digital companies. we had these paper mills in china and in the are they doing the repetitive tasks.
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so this is a book more about culture than it is anything else. because i'm a westerner, an american, and it's way more about us than it is about them otherwise interested. as in anything, what their reaction will be. if i get e-mails from india, willett the really interesting or will it be silly americans, you didn't know this all along? is something i'm going to find out. >> unfortunately, we have to stop there. there's folks over here in the history table. thank you also much for coming.


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